| batouli2at al moutran | |
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+3marie-juliette khawly b.skaf Michel.Dib 7 posters |
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Michel.Dib
Number of posts : 348 Age : 43 Localisation / Branch MJO : LEBANON/Tripoli Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 16, 2007 4:45 pm | |
| isn't the time to change this rules??? | |
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b.skaf
Number of posts : 266 Age : 41 Localisation / Branch MJO : CHARBILA/AKKAR Registration date : 2007-03-20
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 16, 2007 5:00 pm | |
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Michel.Dib
Number of posts : 348 Age : 43 Localisation / Branch MJO : LEBANON/Tripoli Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 16, 2007 5:35 pm | |
| i don't think there is one reason for the moutran to be not married!!! | |
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marie-juliette khawly
Number of posts : 80 Age : 40 Registration date : 2007-04-02
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 16, 2007 6:14 pm | |
| min zamen keno yi2oulou ino l abouna ma lezem yikoun married la ye2dar yerakkez 3ala l ihtimem bi chou2oun ra3iyyeto but times have changed now wil abouna sar ye7e22ello get married i dont see why it shouldnt be the same when it comes to the moutran! i mean he can get married,have children and raise them to be great chritsians and still manages to do his job , thats the best i think ! | |
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Rami.Hosni
Number of posts : 365 Age : 42 Localisation / Branch MJO : Paris /Tripoli-Mina Registration date : 2007-03-19
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 16, 2007 9:22 pm | |
| Je te partage l'avis micho... | |
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marie-juliette khawly
Number of posts : 80 Age : 40 Registration date : 2007-04-02
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 16, 2007 10:06 pm | |
| et moi rami , non? ma3 ini g dis à peu près la même idée de michel | |
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fouad.drouby
Number of posts : 152 Age : 41 Localisation / Branch MJO : Tripoli / Mina Registration date : 2007-03-20
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 16, 2007 10:23 pm | |
| For the sake of the discussions. AL moutran untill al karn al tasi3 ken bikoun mzawwaj w 7atta ken you7ram iza bifakkir yetrok marto. 7atta iza fi shakhos baddo ya3mol metran w ma baddo yetzawwaj l2anno biye3tebir el zawej shi manno mni7, ma ken yi7e22ello yisir metran ( reference: AL Ab Samir gholam -"Al mafhoum al orthodoxy lil 7akk al kanouni" - silsilat " ta3arraf ila kanisatika(19)" - p29). ba3den bein el karn el tase3 el 3asher ballashit tetghayyar el moumeraset wou saro yina22o el motran men el selk el rohbaneh. w ba3den ( ma ba3rif bi 2ayya seni ) sar el motran majbour yikoun batoul... | |
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Rami.Hosni
Number of posts : 365 Age : 42 Localisation / Branch MJO : Paris /Tripoli-Mina Registration date : 2007-03-19
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 16, 2007 10:49 pm | |
| Ils voulaient choisir le meilleur de l'église, et il arrivait qu'il était souvent moine... Marju, t'inquiète pas, je te le partage aussi | |
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marie-juliette khawly
Number of posts : 80 Age : 40 Registration date : 2007-04-02
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 16, 2007 10:59 pm | |
| cant a married man be as good as a moine? in the way that he is raising his own kids to the orthodox believes as much as he can? I dont think that being married will distract him from doing his job and taking care of his church. and I have a question to ask , le role du moine est de rester seul loin de la civilisation et prier toute la journée , mais ce nest pas du tout le role du moutran ( i dont know it in french ) , et cest pour ca que je demande , ne peut on pas choisir un homme qui soit bien et même le meilleur ( par ses actes et ses éthiques) sans qu'il ne soit pas un moine? | |
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Rami.Hosni
Number of posts : 365 Age : 42 Localisation / Branch MJO : Paris /Tripoli-Mina Registration date : 2007-03-19
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 16, 2007 11:24 pm | |
| Marju je voulais continer l'histoire de Fouad... je voulais dire "w kén tsé2eb inno lkharejj houwé moine" mais sinon je te partage completement ce que tu as écrit. Si on voit choisir les meilleurs à notre époque, Fr Bandelimon (hygoumène Hamatoura) sera parmi eux, mais aussi, Costi Bandali, Ass3ad Kottan .... | |
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Michel.Dib
Number of posts : 348 Age : 43 Localisation / Branch MJO : LEBANON/Tripoli Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Thu May 17, 2007 4:29 pm | |
| a propros de ta idees marju (3ajabni hal isem rami), ana mich mi2tene3 innou el sabab hatta elmoutran ykoun batoul houwe tahata 2elahe2 chighel!! because: 1- from long time ago, the moutran is responsible of let say X person's, but the king is responsible of 10 times that number, while the king is always able to do his work and even 2itzawaj 3 w 4.
2- nowaday, all the president mitzawjoun w 3am 2koumo bichighlon..... so i can't think it was a reason (or a good one), and it still not a reason... what i'm afraid of is that this situation is a "bid3a", as u said Marju, maby belevers thought that al raheb afdal min 3almani, or maby becasue of thinging that jesus was not married so it's better for the moutran not to be.... in the two cases this is "bid3a". i think keeping this situation nowaday, means that we agree about those two cases which is very dangerous.... | |
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fouad.drouby
Number of posts : 152 Age : 41 Localisation / Branch MJO : Tripoli / Mina Registration date : 2007-03-20
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Thu May 17, 2007 6:11 pm | |
| aboul el mich bte2ra afkareh . Nice one | |
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b.skaf
Number of posts : 266 Age : 41 Localisation / Branch MJO : CHARBILA/AKKAR Registration date : 2007-03-20
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Thu May 17, 2007 7:21 pm | |
| guys look if the answer affect the faith if not then the problem is solved...... same for kahanout almar2a, myself i would rather focus on my beleif than waste my time discussing things that wont help me | |
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Michel.Dib
Number of posts : 348 Age : 43 Localisation / Branch MJO : LEBANON/Tripoli Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Thu May 17, 2007 7:51 pm | |
| i agree with u bashir if u was replying on e.g. : thyab al kahen, aw da2en el kahen. but no it's important because: 1- it reflect our beleive: " do we thing that al batoule afdal min al moutazaweg? 2- when we can change this situations we will have more option for chossing the moutran, which means better person's in this place and this mean better church and stronger faith.... | |
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jana_mrad
Number of posts : 196 Age : 38 Registration date : 2007-05-15
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Fri May 18, 2007 8:15 am | |
| hello everyone chou houe dawro lal kehen aw l moutran bil ases? chou cheghlo? i'm asking this ta touda7 l fekra 3nde aktar w 2e2dir cherik mazbout coz ana haida l mawdou3 byestafezne(iza sa7 l te3bir) peace | |
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Y.
Number of posts : 425 Registration date : 2007-03-24
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Mon May 21, 2007 11:07 am | |
| jana vous pouvez savoir ce role a partir de :risalat boulos al rassoul ila al 3ebraniyin.sutout: hebreu 5. | |
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Rami.Hosni
Number of posts : 365 Age : 42 Localisation / Branch MJO : Paris /Tripoli-Mina Registration date : 2007-03-19
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Fri May 25, 2007 5:48 pm | |
| Je pense que son premier role est l'apprentissage "Atta3lim".
Mais Michel, certains disent que le roix est servi par plein de serviteurs, mais la différence, c'est que l'eveque, est lui meme le serviteur. On dit aussi, que l'éveque consacre chaque minute de sa vie pour servir, c'est pr ca, il ne peut pas avoir une famille propre à lui. on donne peut etre l'exemple de Mr Bandali, lui qui dort tres tard, il ne rate aucune présentation de condoléances( tt le monde) ou Mr Georges qui lit 6h peut etre par journée.... | |
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Y.
Number of posts : 425 Registration date : 2007-03-24
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Sat May 26, 2007 10:12 pm | |
| e7faz ya rab matarinatouna ila ssinina 3adida. je suis avec votre opinion micho st paul a dit:"fal yakon kollo osskof ba3la mra2aten wa7ida" donc il n'est pas contre... | |
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jana_mrad
Number of posts : 196 Age : 38 Registration date : 2007-05-15
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Mon May 28, 2007 2:50 pm | |
| well guys i have a very different opinion. belnesbe la ele bfaddil ykoun kill 7ada menteme lal ikliros batoul law min ma ken khoure aw motran aw chemmes aw 7ayalla retbe. bi ra2ye l insen baddo yna2e aw bikoun khedim lal knise w la alla (bi kill ma3na l kelme w bala ma yencheghel bi chi tene) ya bikoun 3elmene w byekhdom alla 3a tari2to bala ma ykoun bi selk l kahnout l insen ma fi ye7mol battikhten bi 2id we7de! | |
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fouad.drouby
Number of posts : 152 Age : 41 Localisation / Branch MJO : Tripoli / Mina Registration date : 2007-03-20
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Mon May 28, 2007 5:57 pm | |
| Jana, "shou khass hay bi hay!!!!! Kif lakhbattiyon bba3don shekel." (ziad Rahbani) Bel 3akes iza ken el kahin mzawwaj . biye2dir ya3rif 3an shou 3am ye7ko ma3o abne2 ra3yito iza biye7koulo ba3ed mashekil zawejon masalan. ba3den as someone ( I guess michel ) has posted before, kings and emperors were married at ancient time and still they were able to rule theire people. Presidents nowadays are married and they can manage to do their job (of course I am not talking about our president) anyway. I don't care if the ikliros is married or not, but I care to conter-argue against arguments that prefere him (hopefully her) not to be married. | |
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Michel.Dib
Number of posts : 348 Age : 43 Localisation / Branch MJO : LEBANON/Tripoli Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 30, 2007 7:23 pm | |
| i agree totally with what fouad said, but............ ana btefrou2 ma3i iza wzawaj walla la2..... iza manou mzawaj irou7 2e3oud bildeir!!!! elkahen el batoul fi ra3iya hiya 3amal kharej al tabi3a..... al batoul la yourid al zawaj.... fhawa yantami lilrouhban... | |
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Y.
Number of posts : 425 Registration date : 2007-03-24
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Wed May 30, 2007 8:00 pm | |
| i disagree totally with u micho about al kahen albatoul. lech iza kahen batoul ma bye2dar yekhdom bel mojtama3? lech kharej 3an el tabi3a ?? abadan manno kharej 3an el tabi3a. lech lezim ye23od beldeir iza ader yekhdom el bichara?? et voici un exemple : 1)sayedna jorge etait kahen batoul 3al mina 2)ghi jilbert (l'as_tu lu) c'est un kahen batoul qui a travaillé plus qu'un 1000 pretres mariés. St. paul etait marié???non! rgds | |
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Michel.Dib
Number of posts : 348 Age : 43 Localisation / Branch MJO : LEBANON/Tripoli Registration date : 2007-03-22
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Thu May 31, 2007 6:32 pm | |
| ce que je dit et tu a le choit etre marie ou non ci tu decide de ne pas etre, alors tu decide pratiquement d'etre batoul ay raheb, (batoul = raheb), mais si tu'est raheb ca ne va pas dire que tu ne peut tikdom el moujtama3, (c'est le role de elrehban), mais tu ne peut pas maintenant etre kahen ra3iyeh, it's wrong, even that sayedna george did so, for me it still wrong.... kahen al ra3iya yajeb an yakoun mouzawaj li2ana7ou yakhdoum moutazawijin, kama an kahen al rouhban yajeb an yakoun batoul li2anahou yakhdoum batouli2in... it's a simple formula....... exception can be present but we must stil indicate it as exception and never replace the expcetion and make it rule. | |
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Rami.Hosni
Number of posts : 365 Age : 42 Localisation / Branch MJO : Paris /Tripoli-Mina Registration date : 2007-03-19
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Thu May 31, 2007 6:53 pm | |
| Petite remarque: G. Khoder conseille toujours que le pretre d'une paroisse doit etre marié. | |
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Y.
Number of posts : 425 Registration date : 2007-03-24
| Subject: Re: batouli2at al moutran Thu May 31, 2007 7:00 pm | |
| je ne suis pas de tout d'accord que alkahen albatoul ne peut pas servir des mariés ??pourquoi??? st. paul n'etait pas marrié et ila donné des enseighnements pour les mariés, bacilios al kabir et you7ana al zahabiy al fam etaient des moines et ils ont aussi donner des enseignements analogues qui sont meilleurs de tous les pretres marriés!!! qui a dit que seul le pretre marié peut servir les mariés?? , je suis contre cet idee là, et meme je ne pense plus que c'est une formule comme vous avez dit mich, pour sayedna jorge je ne pense plus que c'est une exception , c'est l'une des cas qui ont eu beaucoup de succés. et voici mes exemples au dessus , le post precedent . je pense que ces formules sont " tajjani 3ala al kahana al batoul", il ne faut pas de tout les accepter a mon avis. enfin ce n'est pas la bonne formule pour choisir le pretre lal ra3iyeh : il faut qu'il soit icon de jesus sur la terre,(marrié ou non). | |
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