sectarianism

fouad
we have to look after our ppl first, then if we can and we have the power and money we look after all ppl, jesus prayed only for his 12 apostales to be saved from the world but he had 77 didn he????

totally disagree.
look for masal al samiri al shafouk.
And anyone who thinks otherwise, I consider him ta2ifeh.
Sorry, but this is a very sensitive issue for me.

Fouf, je voulais donner la meme parabole

Je pense Bachir qu'il faut servir les 2 en même temps.
Jesus a prié pour les 12, mais aussi il a prié pour le monde.
Dans la liturgie, on prie pour le monde "min ajli salami koulli l3alam, wa hazihi elmadina..." et dans la meme liturgie on prie "jami3ana wa jami3a elmassihyin el2ourthodoxe"

Dans les premiers siecles pareils, les chrétiens servaient tout le monde pareil, elwassanyin w elyahoud...
L'hopotal de Basile le grand servait tous les étrangers, par que les chrétiens.
C'est pour ca, Jesus à chaque fois donnait les paraboles sur les samartains...

et je songe aussi à mistwsaf elharaké à Elmina, à chaque fois j'entre je vois les femmes voilés la ba...yatma2inno bali annana nakhdoumou eljami3, parce qu'Il a dit 3amel ennas kama touhoubi an you3amilounaka.

well i partly agree with rami and fouad min jiha , and partly agree with bashir min jiha teniyi iza fhemet assdo mni7
i know its good to help everyone and not only orthodox , but we should do it in certain limits , ya3ni bi tari2a ma nkoun 3am nekhod min dareb our own people
ill explain how , ino we should help others when we can , bas we should keep in mind ino others might not help us all the time , bi ma3na ino fi tawa2ef 3a 7ayla mén7azé la abné2a w bass w ma ktir biyhemma yalli mich mitla
all im saying is : ne soyons pas plus royalistes que le roi , ino ma ne2toul 7alna la nsse3ed gherna , ok we help them when we can and when we have the money to do it
i dont think its fair to call this ta2ifiyi!

sorry for the long message

i totally agree with rami and fouad, and somehow with bashir and fouad, but what i'm saying is that orthdox and christan at general, are having a lot of difficulties specially economics, this difficulties are making our presence in the east in danger and chahadatouna fi khatar, "nahnouh mou3aradin lil inkirad".
so i will tell u an exemple i'm living:
1- my father and now my brother have a jewerelly store in tripoli, the street called "sayaghin street" (where george khoder worked for a while,) was full of orthodox stores, but as a lot of muslims refuse to buy from christan stores (or even from stores who sell crosses), all the christan stores was closed and replaced by muslims stores, nowaday the "tabe3 of the street change.
i haved two uncle that worked in the same street closed, and the essentiel problem is becasue they are christan.
so what i'm saying for conserving the history and the presence of christan we must find a way for this people to stay. i'm not saying buying from christan only, but trying to take this in mind, for exemple i have two supermarket near my houise one christan the other is muslims, they have the same price, i will prefer to buy from the christan.....
so having a bank, will help us preserving our presence, and when we are powerfull we are able to help others, when we are not, we will not be able to help anyone!!!!
for exemple why u in mina have a " moustawsaf" becasue u are strong.... in tripoli we can't becasue we are not strong, so first we must be strong...
but all this does not mean that we don't help others, for exemple by this bank we can make a school for "elmoucharadine" where teachers and workers are christans but the khidma is for all!!!

Mary-J the byble is full of examples that shows that we don't help people and expect that they would help us back in the future. wou iza ghayran byietsarraf bi khata2 nen7na ma "menzid el ttyn balleh" . w hon i7da ma3aneh el salib an la noujari el khata2.

Mich I might adopt your plan if we were not in lebanon. In lebanon the situation is very sensitive. Your plan might be absolutly great but it might have bad consequences on the society (min na7iet isaret al shou3our al ta2ifeh). if you and me agree that al nizam al ta2ifi bi loubnen is bad and should change it. I see that this mashrou3 is not helping our purpose. untill we reach a moujtama3 3elmeneh we should nkassir rasna to find mashari3 that help our people to stay in their areas and keep the church alive (3a awlet sayidna georges wa2ta ken 3am ye7keh ma3 el mouhajjarin bel jabal : "raj3etkon 3a manate2kon betraji3 3l masi7 3a jabal lebnen"), but at the same time this new mashari3 should not t7arrik el masha3ir al ta2ifieh.
w "koullou ma fa3altoumouh bi a7ad ikhwati ha2oula2 al sighar fa bi fa3altoumouh" . Jesus meant any mou7taj not tlemizo .
.....
"moubarakon anta ya rabb 3allimni 7oukoukak".
.....

totally agree wiht u fouad.
bass just a remark about the huge universities and hostipals .....
costy bandaly in his book "mawkef iymani mina al ta2ifia " said enou kel hal mabaneh wel machari3 el dakhmeh ma ila 3azeh iza ma khadamet el fa2ir, 7ayala fa2ir. reference"luc 10"al samiri al chafouk.as fouad said . and ma btekhdom el orthodoxieh bi chi.
wall rab yar3ani fala chay2a yo3wizani

fouad and elias, "a3ti me likaysar likaysar wme lillah lillah"
ana mish ta2ifi,m wma bi2bal hada yin3atni bhal tasmiyeh, bass im orthodox and i love my church n my ppl, i did not say that we help exclusivly the orthodox, but as mish was sayig about the two suppermakets, if they have the same price which one would rather buy from, myself i will buy from the one that gives me a better customer service not necessary christan's, but the fact is with all the schools we have and other coorporations u will see that the workers are mostly none orthodox. we have a university that is ot able to help its own ppl but at the same time you will see that "mou2asat alhariri" is giving "minah" for muslim ppl to study in the uob (univ of balamand), dont you feel that there is something wrong in here, orthodox in leb are the third ta2ifeh in numbers between 17 but they make u feel like they are the last is this fair, our ppl are dying bcause we r too good for others but not good for ourselves these are all fats.
my question to u fouad if you were given the money now and u know that ur brother is in need for this money (to study to buy a car, a house,...... ) and im talking about ur blod brother who will u help him or someone u dont even know him, and this is what i mean by my own ppl if i was given the money ill help whoever in need from my ppl first and if i can anyone else is welcome

Bash you say :
"we have a university that is ot able to help its own ppl but at the same time you will see that "mou2asat alhariri" is giving "minah" for muslim ppl to study in the uob (univ of balamand), dont you feel that there is something wrong in here, orthodox in leb are the third ta2ifeh in numbers between 17 but they make u feel like they are the last is this fair, our ppl are dying bcause we r too good for others but not good for ourselves these are all fats."

w bet2elleh hada manno tefkir ta2ifeh. huh.
3a awlet ziad rahbeneh : "Lok bel berghol fi ta2ifieh."
Lok ana ma3 kell tfelsopheh essa fineh ta2ifieh. we need to work hard to stop thinking like that.

Everyone should read "Maw2if imani min al ta2ifia". It shows exactly the way out of ta2ifieh.

Anyway...
as for your second part I don't care who I am helping, I help anyone in need as much as I can without even knowing him or what is his religion.

hi:)
well fouad lli 3am t2oulo ktir 7elo w ktir falsafe bass kamen ktir khayele;) (3al alile nowadays), coz iza fakkaret billi 2alo bachir 3an:"if you were given the money now and u know that ur brother is in need for this money and im talking about ur blood brother who will u help him or someone u dont even know" akid ra7 tna2e ur brother add ma tkoun dodd l ta2ifye bilniheye ne7na bachar w fi rawabit ben l ekhwe a2wa min l rawabet ma3 be2e l nes.

ktir 7elo nnse3ed bala tafri2a bass iza minfakkir we2i3yan 3al ared menchouf inno l ta2ife l orthodoxye ma ma3a meddyyet kefye la tse3id l kill hye anja2 t2oum bi 7ala

ana ta2ifye? yemken bass l we2e3 3al ard hon bi lebnen byejberna nfakkir w netsarraf bihal tari2a coz iza tsehalna ktir fa "nahnouh mou3aradin lil inkirad"! metel ma 2al michel. already l masi7yin saro hyper 2lel bil chare2 ma ba2a fi gher chal3outen w noss lezim n7afez 3layon ta "yeb2a l masi7 bil chare2"

peace

Ya jame3a Ne7na el masi7ieh shaghletna nghayyir el weki3 iza ghalat.
w jana as I wrote before. Anyone who need help and I can help him I would if it was my brother or not.

Ya jame3a we should not pass by masal al samiri a shfouk mourour al kiram. It 's wadi7 metel el shames man houwa al karib.

Al masi7iyin mou3arradin lal inkirad la2anno saro wasaniyin 3am ye3bado el mal wal jinis. Al Masi7eh 3al hawiheh lays masi7eh ya jame3a.

I wont discuss this topic on the forum anymore. it makes me nervous to see "Harakiyin" thinking in this way.

Take care everyone.

fouad i agree with you about "man houwa karibi"
and agree with you that we shouldn give importance iza inkaradna walla la2,
ba3den min 2al ya jana rah nikirid elmasih 2al "wa2abweb aljahim lan takwa 3alaya" as long as we think as christians, if we beleive that god loved us and sacrificed for us, with the love language we wont be like other christians "3al hawiyeh"
as met george khouder say "le tahtammou iza asbahtoum akallia, fa2inna allah le tahoummouhou al3adadiya" jana we should not care about our numbers at the end of the day wha is more important is our thoughts and beleif.
fouad i wish u wont stop writing in here coz ur answer is valuable for us and we need ppl like u,
trust me ana mish ta2ifeh, but if u have a deeper look to the situation in lebanon u will understand what im saying,
it is my rights as a christian to ask for help from my ppl, because he said "is2alou tou3taw, 2ikra3ou youftah lakoum" but when i find no listing ears but at the same time i see other ppl who are not christians getting help this is when i get depressed, not because im ta2ifi nooooooooooooo, trust me, just to let u know, my house mate is muslim, i share house with him, good, rent, bills, i study with him, his closer to me than my brother and this is a true feeling. when i say we should look after our ppl not because im ta2ifi as u are describing me "zoulman" but because our ppl really need attention, e.g. the "south", the "north" "syria", "jordon" 'turkey", i have brothers for me that are in deep shit... u urself u call any mjoian a "brother" or "sister" do u call anyone like this, i dont think so, lebanon is all about politics, families ruining our future, if there was someone that looked after me there i wouldnt have left, if only someone asked me to stay and offered me a job i would have stayed, but really they dont care, they fooled us and keep doing the same cant u see are u that blind....
i will stop in here coz i dont wanna hurt anyone.
god bless u all "lahoum 3ouyoun wale youbsiroun"

Akhi bash I am not ettehim you to be ta2ifeh. I am sying that this kind of thinking is ta2ifeh: (looking after jame3etna first).

It's cristal clear the situation for me. But I don't want to fall in this infinite loop. (every ta2ifeh helps it's people) it should be broken froma point. I personally feel that I would start from myself.

My opinion sometimes lead you to think that I will go to search for a person from different religion and help him before helping people from my religion. this is absolutly a misunderstanding. The main thing I m saying that I don't make a diffrence between peopel who needs help (hayda iza adir se3don ), and if 2 people happen to be in my face at the same time and both need the same help, one of them christian and the other is not ( I would split my help equally in 2) (that's what I would do).


Thank bashir (rawwa2etneh shway by your reply )

do u think fouad that what i say if i will see a person near me from other religion that need help i will not help him???
no i will
for me it's a point of strategie...
when the chruch is power they can help more.....
so to help we more we must help our self to be more powerfull....
what about that!!!!!!!

sara7a fou2ad u don't have to be angry .
ana 3am esstafed menn ur posts in this subjects, la2enou akkadteli enou ana ta2ifeh , plz give more ur opinions , fik ta3mol sujet ?? aw post kbir?

Moustawsaf elharaké à Elmina, ouvre ses portes à tout le monde, et les femmes voilées sont les plus présentes, quelle joie je ressens à trouver les Chrétiens servir les plus démunis, les Freres du Christ.
Si on dit Micho que je dois avant etre puissant, on les aide jamais car on sera jamais satisfait de notre puissance.
Tu connais les sous de la veuve!!
Le plus dangereux s'est que les croyants s'enferment comme faisaient les juifs, et pour ca que Jesus donnait souvent des paraboles citant les samaritains, surtout El chafouk.

Majanan akhaztoum, majanan a3tou!

ur right fou2ad, this is what we all should do, and as rami said we dont have to be powerfull hatta nse3id we can all the time 3a add ma fina.