al ab al rou7i!!!

hal houwa makboul tarikhiyan aw houa ikhtira3 jadid!!!
hal houwa daroura!!!
hal min al moumkin an la yakoun min alkahana!!

mishel:

alab alrou7i houwwi insen moutakadim rouhiyan fi halit al2istinara
(in orthodoxy we have stages to reach god, the last two are istinara wa ta2allouh), mamsous min allah, w3indou mawhibat al2irshed.
it all started in the russion monastries when the monks used to talk to the old monks they used to call them "shouyoukh" this monks gives directions on ways to get to reach god, they dont have to be priests, then when the russians traveled to mount athos, they tought this to the greeks and it started growing in the holy mountain. the mission of the spiritual father is to guid his children and give them directions in their lives. now this tradition started to move towards our sociaty, because its importance is so huge. they are ppl inlithened by god and the holy spirit so the decision they make is very critical and is given through prayers and tears and caution. they get to know a lot about their children before giving directions, they are not "mou3arrifin," unless they are preists, they can even be women. "2oum rou7iya"

there is nothig special about them exept that they are closer to god than us, and if they are priest and prohibit their children from doing things like communion for example they are responsible of the decision not the children, because they know what they are doing...
never try the holy spirit, what remains to say is, alab alrou7i wal2ab almou3arrif totaly two different things, with the spiritual father u have to chose him and be close to him and tell him a lot about u and ur life, he knows u very well, like a best friend, the difference between him and the best friend is that he's got the power to know what to do, whereas ur friend can listen only. however alab almou3arrif u only talk to him wen in confession, if it is hard for u to c ur spiritual father you can go to any close one that he recommends, and if u did a sin and need to confess u can go to any preist.

al 2abou l rou7i mhemm ta yerchedna 3al tari2 l sa7i7a bass sa3eb nle2i (3al alile i think so) so ana lamma badde na2e ab rou7e lezim ykoun raheb la kehen ra3ye wala kehen mjawaz wala 7ada min barrat l kahnout

lech jana , je connais beaucoup des pretres mariés qui sont aba2 rou7iyin par exellence:abouna mounif 7omssi, abouna georges 3atié ...
que pensez vous?

pour l'histoire micho : ca existe , thimothes wa titoss et d'autres etait comme des fils spirituels pour St paul.

pour sa necessité : est ce qu'une arbre planté peut grandir d'une bonne facon sans (ssanad)(un petit morceau de bois qui tient l'arbre 7atta ma ten2eref)????

pour la 3eme question? oui il peut etre un moine sans qu'il etre un pretre, et ce cas exister bel jabal al moukadass.

well elias,
yemken ana ktir mettarfe aw gholtane bass bel nesbe la 2ele ma berte7 lal kahane khsouse l moutazawijin minnon w b7ess fi 7awejiz w 3atharat bayne w baynon (coz l khwarne l mjawwazin henne rjel 3adyin 3endon 3yal metlon metel 7ayalla 7ada tene bil moujtama3 w 3endon ihtimemeton w wejbeton w etc... l fare2 inno wazifeton bil knise!) l rehben henne a2rab l nes la alla bi nazare li2anon ma 3endon ehtimemet tenye w nedrin kill 7ayeton la alla kermel hek henne aktar nes moukhawwalin yerchdouna 3al tari2 l mazbout

I just want to say to Jana. Kalamaik manno da2i2 abadan.
To Bashir. 7asab 3elmeh al ounouweh al rou7ieh wal i3tira are 2 faces of the same point. it's possible to confess to any father but it's better that one confesses to his/her spiritual father
w iza el sayid rami bi redd shouway wou birayye7na.

ana kamen ma bwef2ik jana; et voici un contre exemple : alkediss yaou7anna kronichtadet

jana ce que tu a dis et tres dangereux.....
just remenber that there was two way:

- the way of jhon the baptist (who don't eat.......)
- and jesus (who eat..........)

but jesus was "better" the jhon? remenber always that!!!!! for me what ur saying is very very unacceptable...... nad anti christan!!

3a mahelkon 3laye ya chabeb
ba3den micho chou khass john and jesus w la chou l comparison bayneton (ma aslan no one can be compared to jesus) ma fhemet l fekra ba3den chou hay :"anti christian" ana???
anyway guys i told u maybe i'm wrong but that's my idea that's how i think! u don't have to judge me but if u find me wrong u should convince me to be right
peace

hello, well jana i am sympathizing with u.. alla ysse3dik:)

guys rou2o 3al binit shwey! ino she has a point. ana i think that i cant hab ab rou7e, kehin ra3iyitna..i find it really hard. bas mich la2inni ma3 jana bi 2ino moutazawej bas la2ano ble2iya sa3be.dont know y.
anyway maybe l rihben aw l 2ebe2 yalli bikouno bi 2adyira b3ide shwey 3an l 3alam minle2e fiyoun malja2 aktar min ghayroun la2ano shakhsiyyan b7iss ino tarako kol shay2 w tabi3o llah.fa bitkoun inta bi7aje la hek shakhes ykoun mourchid 2ilak.
as for the question, akid woujoud ab rou7e daroure w moufid lal 2irched 3a tari2 el rab bi kil fi3il bl kanise aw kharija.
2i7timel woujoud ab rou7e kharej l kanise (maykoun rajoul din) moumkin bi nazare bas l mou3arrif mafi ykoun 2illa mn l kahane li2ana lahou sultan an yaghfir l khataya..yimkin shakhes maykoun 2eder ykoun 3ala 2itisal deyim bi a7ad l kahane bas ykoun fi shakhes arib mino, 2a2wa mino rou7iyan aw bile2e fi yalli bi7aje la2ilo w byi2dar yirichdo.

by the way yenken fi chaghle fhemtoua menne ghalat ana ma berte7 la kahanet l ra3aya mich li2annon mjawwazin!!! bass li2annon binazare 3eychin metlon metel ghayron bi kill chi mich bass bil zawej. inno masalan l far2 bayn bayye w khoure l ra3ye houe inno bayye byechteghil bi cherke w l khoure bil knise
ps: ra7 elbos dere3 w 7ott casque 3a rase li2anno beftekir ra7 yballich l houjoum l moudad

Lol, shabeb dawrkon trado Jannoun...

HI I AM NEW HERE, so please ma tkoni ktir tough to me. i am somehow not that relgious as you but i really liked the point that jana is stressing.
kif badi irtah la shakhis mjawaz mitli mitlo (ma3 ino wazifto khoury) as jana said especially after facing many khwarni to me they must not hve been accepted bil khawrani. i, by my own eyes shayif ktir khwarni yimkin kaman mish mjawazin bhawlo ykono jagaliyi w kaman bsahbo 3ala marton etc..... is this possible?
to me it is not acceptable. that is why i don't believe that much bil ab el rohi i prefer my life and my problems stay between me and god

rony u said:"that is why i don't believe that much bil ab el rohi i prefer my life and my problems stay between me and god"

1)chou houwi hadafak bel 7ayet??la wein bet7eb toussal??
2)w iza ghalatet min bi sa7e7lak tari2ak

Hello
a mon avis, quand on fait du mal, c'est pas que a Dieu qu'on a fait du mal, mais à la personne à qui on a fait le mal.
du coup, on a fait du mal à l'assemblée, à l'église.
C'est pour ca, il faut demander le pardon devant l'église, maintenant symbolisé par un prêtre.
Si on ne se confesse pas à qq'un, ca risque qu'on soit orgeuilleux et jamais avoir le courage de dire que j'ai fait tel chose ou autre.


Maintenant, un père spirituel doit être aussi mourchid rouhi, mais lon peut avoir plusieurs mourshid rouhi.
Dans notre vie spirituel on peut demander l'avis à plein de gens qui nous peuvent aider.
Costi Bandali, layique marié, a aidé des centaines de jeunes et adolescent dans leur vie spirituel, que bcp de moines.
Rien n'empêche Un marié d'être plus saint qu'un moine, , en plus, le fait d'avoir expérimenté la vie en christ dans une famille, avoir une femme et des enfants, peut donner de son expérience et nous illuminé le chemin.

hadafi bil hayat..... ?????? really to live a normal life without being offended to be a christian and to offend other religions.
do u think ino el ghiltan byi2dir sa7i7lak tari2ak.. yi3ni lama tshof khori wahad matalan 3am yil3ab 2mar.... ana ma b3od bosa2 bil khwarni.. iza shift khoury 3am bsahib 3a marto ma b3od bosa2 b hada ..fa iza wahad ghiltan do u think he can help u tirja3 3al tari2 el sahih? haida so2al btmana tjawibni 3alay.

yes of course he can!!!

the power of al i3tiraf is that u are saying ur bad ideas to a sinner!!
u are learning first of all altawadou3....
imagine that, when u make a sin u go to another sinner to told him that u made a sin!!!! ouf!!! it's great way God create!!!
but if he is a sinner how he will help!!! it's easy!!!

there is a lot of sins!! but he can help u only in the sins that he defeat it!!!!
for exemple: if al ab al rouhi have the sin of he get so easy angry and scream in evry person who is discussing!!! and if u have the same sin he can't help u!!! he will tell u go to another!!!
but if u love el2imar, and u ab rouhi don't he can help in this!!!

so that :
1- the ab el rouhi must be near from ur society, he passed the same problemed u passed and he know how to defesd it and he will teach u!!!

2- we must choose the most close one to jesus, al akthar kadassa!!!

jana!!!
i mean jesus come and live like all the people live, he eat and drink (alkohol), he go to parties..... he's like evry person in our society....

jhon was Raheb, he don't eat, don't drink, don't go to parties.... wa kan afdal man waladathou imra2a!!!

so if the person was married and have hi work, his children , his life= lalraheb!!!

no one is better, and please read the message above to understand me more!!

i asked u rony this question to c what is it ur purpose in life :
if it is "allah" as our church teach! so u need a help !! why???

if u wanna study the engeneering u need profs, if u wanna study chou maken u need a person khabir bel chghleh 7atta y3lmak!!!]

jesus teached el rossol for 3 years!!

so if u want to arrive to god , u must have help from a person akhbar mennak bi hal amer . very simple!!

and plz ma t3amem 3ala kel el khwarneh enou mech mne7!!! haydi akid mech mazbout wala 7ata ma2boul! coz rony fi ktir khwarneh w monks ktiiiiiirrrrr mne7.

iza enta sadafet khoury byel3ab 2mar , ba3ed 3anou !! choul machkal??

i asked u rony this question to c what is it ur purpose in life :
if it is "allah" as our church teach! so u need a help !! why???

if u wanna study the engeneering u need profs, if u wanna study chou maken u need a person khabir bel chghleh 7atta y3lmak!!!]

jesus teached el rossol for 3 years!!

so if u want to arrive to god , u must have help from a person akhbar mennak bi hal amer . very simple!!

and plz ma t3amem 3ala kel el khwarneh enou mech mne7!!! haydi akid mech mazbout wala 7ata ma2boul! coz rony fi ktir khwarneh w monks ktiiiiiirrrrr mne7.

iza enta sadafet khoury byel3ab 2mar , ba3ed 3anou !! choul machkal??

3awefeh jami3an.
Jana don't worry isa 7teddet shouway. Heydeh tabi3teh. w ne7na 3am nounakid al afkar wa lays enti shakhsiyan . essa ma mna3erfik.(yimkin lezim na3mol lika2 la jame3t el forum elli bi lebnen).fa a3tazirou miniki ya oukhti .

I have some remarqs.

To start with : Ma 3am ethajjam 3a 7ada.

Awwal wa afza3 khata2a henneh el rehben el kbar. kiiiiifffff?????

ma ana b2oul heik henneh bi2oulo 3an nafson hek.

I think there is a thin line between el moura2at wal tawado3. ya3ni ma kel min "al ana akbar khati2" houwa moutawadi3 wa laysa kel min al "ana a3rif el kasir" houwa moutakabbir. haydi matroukeh la allah allzi yaf7as el kouloub wal noufous.

Bass el mouhem "samart a3malihim" elli fina nshoufa w se3ta men 2oul enno haida el shakhes moumkin ousa2 fi w yershedni rou7ian iza ken kahin ra3ieh, ra2is deir , rahib moubtadi2 aw 3elmeni. bass 3amalian w bi ma enno sala el e3tiraf el ayedeh badda kahen (3al ma a3takid) it would be azbat enno yikoun el mourshid el rou7i houweh el ab al mou3arrif.

Bass bel niheyeh allah elli ra7 yeghfor el khataya mosh el kehin. la2an soultan ghefran el khataya houwa li Allah, ya Mireille, mosh lal 3elmeneh wala lal ikliros.

Halla2 bel nesebeh lal yalli 3am bi2oulo Rony. (Rony ya reit bet3arrefna 3an nafsak ).
Fi el we7id yekhod kaza maw2if w ma daroureh yikouno salbiyin.
Bass bel 2awwal lezim el shakhes yikoun 3endo minimum ma3rifeh bel kitab. wou ya3rif rou7iet el enjil lawa bishakel 3am, bisir iza semi3 hal shakhos 7adis el kehin 3an el 3effeh w 3adam le3eb el 2mar wel kehen houweh bisa7ib 3a marto w sekkarjeh w ... biye2dir hal shakhos ya3mol metel ma al el masi7 2al: "isma3ou akwalahoum wa la taf3alou af3alahom."

W shaghleh teniyeh iza nos aw 3/4 el kahaneh ( 3am oul ar2am 3al 3emieneh) mannon mne7 w bimerso el khata2 bi hal2ad la moubalat. hayda ma ye3neh kellon heik .

W ekhir shi al orthodoxia bel ekhir bte3temid 3a ra2i el jame3a wel ershed houweh irshed el jame3a ba3dhom la ba3d bi kira2et (el kitab ) wa akel ( al mounawal) kalimat ellah bi kouwat el rou7 el kodos.

thank u for ur great reply elie and fouad...
but i have to say more that i don't have the problem if al kahen houwa khate2...
koulana khata2a....
iza kan khate2 (w houwa kazalek, sami li man tacha2 w sa atanaba2 wa akoul anouhou khate2!!) fa wajebna an nourchidahou li2anana na7nou aydan kahana!!!!!
koulana khata2a kahana wa mou2minin wa rouhban... i will not be surprised seeing a raheb youkhti2 w laken atafaja2 min jama3a toudinahou w la tousa3idouhou aw tourchidih!!!
ama ba3da al irchad w 3indama la you7awel tasli7 khata2ahou.. youfsal 3an el jama3a 3abra man3ihi min al tanawel hata law kan ouskifan aw sani3a 3aja2eb!!!!

i really liked and took much of what Fouad said. you realy 3abarton my point of view.
concerning ta3rif 3an hali.. ana rony akiki min zahle 25 years old dunno what to say more? i hope u fouad ask any question u might wana know about and would be my pleasure to answer.

commenting on fouad about what he said. i really know a little about the bible and according to what am seeing from u people in this forum. it seems i no nothing. and thanks on stressing on that point

u said "isma3ou akwalahoum wa la taf3alou af3alahom." and that was really my point but i think neither michel nor elias had the same point of view to me. a person might be in a sin and we can have some help from him or irshad wa taw3iya but to me i can't give my whole life to a person in sin. i can't depend on him in whatever i wanna and sorry if i have been offensive. to me it is better that i take advice from a person but not make him al ab el rohi.
i didn't say that all the khwarni hini 3atlin wala kil el khwarni hini mnah so u need to monitor every khory aw shammas aw whatever his post was and according 3ala a3malo fina nhasbo aw sorry ma fina nhasib hada inama we can say if this man can be ab rouhi or not. and finally what i really liked in all ur comment is this "W ekhir shi al orthodoxia bel ekhir bte3temid 3a ra2i el jame3a wel ershed houweh irshed el jame3a ba3dhom la ba3d bi kira2et (el kitab ) wa akel ( al mounawal) kalimat ellah bi kouwat el rou7 el kodos." because to me el jama3a is better than following a person however he was except god

hi elias concerning ur comment that if u were an enginer u need prof and the same in religion. but do u think u would learn things from an illeterate prof or ingnorant prof ai don't think so and how can u learn from an ignorant ab rohi or if not ignorant he may be khati2 as michel like to mention .