al ab al rou7i!!!

concerning u michel i don't ino i can accept a person to be ab rohi iza kan khati2 khata2an jasiman. ma haik.

khata2 3an khata2 byifro2 ma haik ya michel;

rony: in the forum of:introduce ur self u can give us all informations about u!!

about ur reply , there is a lot of kahana 3achou wekhtabarou el ereb men allah , so henni yalli bye2edrou yerechdouna men kheberton bi hal majel . w iza ken byel3ab aw byeskar : ba3ed 3anno, barrem 3al kahaneh el moustanirin men ne3met allah , and there is a lot!!!!!! as examples we need th whole page!

ya shabeb wikhsousi roni:
2abb rou7i shi w2ab mou3arrif shi teni, rja3ou la 2awal elsubject..
al2ab almou3arrif, 3indou mouhimmi ma tikhltou bein eltnen, alab almou3arif bikouwat alsoultan almou3ta lahou ykoul lil mou3tarif: yasou3 ya7oulouka min khati2atik" fa el2ab el mou33arrif ma houwi byighfirlek allah byighfirlek bass sirr el2i3tiraf hatta inta t2irr bikhati2tak iddem insen mitlak mitlou, yi3ni allah sa7i7 sheyif w3erif bass niha mish sheyfin wala m3abrinou la 2allah wlawla hek ma kinna rtakabna khatiyeh,
fi marra 7rami ra7 la yisrou2 atm machine, lamma wisil la 2iddem elbank whouwi w3am yisrou2 tili3lou kalb wnaba7 3le 2em khaf, ba3den hal 2insen fakkar bi nafsou w2al wloooooo 2iddeish ana khati, iza min kalb khifit, ma32ouli mish 7esis biwjoud 2alla wala kheyif minnou!!!! fa hal zalameh teb wkaff 3an khatiytou, hayda el mathal 3taytou bass ta 2illkoun 2iddeish sa3beh elwahad yi3tirif iddem allah moubesharatan min doun woujoud el2ab almou3if...
amma al2ab alrou7i fa mawdou3 teni, houwi mourshid la2ili, bidili 3ala tari2 elsa7 kherij sirr el2i3tiraf wmish darouri koun kehin aslan, houwi mitil sadi2 2awi la 2ili boutha2 fi wibyoutha2 fini, wfi hel aa khtit w2iltillou iza ken kehin bi3arrifni wbitloub min allah yighfrli wiza la2 byib3atni la 3ind kehin hatta 2i3tirif...
mazbout rony fi khwarni ktir khata2a, bass ana ma baddi shouf elshawki b3aynoun wma shouf elshawki bi 3ayni, iza hinni kata2a hinni kamen lezim ya3rfou innou 3indoun abb rouhi ydilloun 3al sah wiza ma 3indoun allah yistour....nshallah ykoun twadah aktar elmawou3 halla2

no there is no differance between small sin and great sin....

and i accept totally with u rony that not the purpose of the ab el rouhi to posses me, only jesus posses me.... his the only real ab rou7i but the ab el rou7i give the opinion of the church (al jama3a) mixed with his experience...

when his experiance3 seem far from mine and can have help from any other person in the church who passed the experiance and defeat it cause la jama3a is th ab el rou7i

mish mbala fi khatiyi kbiri wkhatiyi sghiri mish hek????
mitil ma 3inna nihna hasanet 2imen wraje2 wmahabba WA2A3ZAMOUHOUNNA alma7abba kamen "2illa altajdif 3ala alrou7 alkoudous" (akbar alkhataya), biltaklid elorthodoxy alkhati2a mousannafi bi darajet, mishen ma 2a3ti ma3loumet khati2a biktifi bihal2adar bass b7ibb 22illak innou elkibriye2 bti7tall elmartabeh el2oulah, elkhatiyeh khatiyeh bass fi zghir wfi kbir,

i agree with u bash that the tradition talk about classification of sins....
but i still on my opinion that there is no sin akbar min others....
i will discuus this point:

1- theorically or as defintion there is no big sins, the sin is an act that express or lead u far from God... it's not important how far u are when u are far...when a person die it's not important if the doctor is at the door or still on the route...
other exemple:
a person dishonner a women...
another stoll this women...
a third killed this women...
at judgment day do u think anyone will enter paradize...
but in jouhanam their is no first class, second class , or third class... so when i make a "small " sin or a "big" sin it's the same....

2- as definition an i mentioned before evry act can be sin, so we have billion and billion of sin, who will have time to classify them?

3- when father classify i see that they classify accordin to :
- globality (shoumouliya) which means when i have takabour this sin will lead me to make all the others sins... this sin is not bigger in thoery but more global.
- the effect of some sins: when i stol i can return what i stol... when i kill i can't return the dead from death!! killing is not bigger theorically but the result can't be managed!!!

to answer your question on who will enter the paradize, i dont know it is not me that decide, plus u cant judge on one incident that happened, god will decide looking to their whole life.

now according to the fathers, there is no such place as jhannam and janna, paradize is the degree to which how close u are to god, n hell is the degree o which how far u are from god, trust me is does matter what i ur distance from god, and thats y we beleive in shafe3it el2iddisin, and thats y we pray for the dead.
the distance between u and god determine to how much u are inlightened by his liht and this will determine to which degree ur happiness is.

no, it's not true....

first of all, sorry bash u undertand my exemple... but u are trying to talk about other things as paradize, and judjement... even that u know that i'm not talking about those but about a specific point. to let u agree with me and unable to discuss i will play ur game...
in mathew we read:
- a person did not visit a prisoner
- another did not give food for hungry people.
- a third did not give water...

so between them God did not say ur sin is bigger or no... u are sinner ---> go to hell.

hell, is the abscence of God... as that there is darkness and light and nothing between them...

wel3et ya chabeb
bass iza la7azto chattayto ktir 3an l mawdou3 so if u want to discuss the "sins" go open a new discussion
ana do3ot hehheheheheh

tikram 3aynik janjoun

can you please answer me why pray for the dead if their position is already classified.... you are saying that, it doesn matter if you are in hell you are in hell and if u are in heaven u are in heaven, i say one thing to u, we call our lady "alfe2ik koudsouha, akram min alsherobim wa2arfa3 min alserafim" wbit2illi ma fi darajettttttttt....

Theorically, yes there is no differance in kadasat walidat al ileh and others saints....

hello..

jana!! I red the big part of this topic, and I want to say to you that It will be good for you and your relation to ab-alrou7i and therefore for ur life with God if you can put your finger on why you feel as you said. You said "....b7ess fi 7awejiz w 3atharat bayne w baynon...".

You don't have to tell us anything. It is about you and your relation. Take your time to understand yourself in this point and to understand why you feel like this. Pray much to Jesus with all ur heart and to the Holy spirit, He is lovely he will help you, I am sure of that. God will help you to understand with his big love that gives lighting and knowledge, because when you understand yourself in this case with God's help so you will almost solve the problem. To understand ourselves is not the easyest thing, to understand ourselves is to love, and to listen to ourselves and to our heart. And when we love ourselves it will be easyier to love those who it is hard to love.

Have the hope on God when you pray thathe will be merci to give you an answer in some way when it is time.

Talk with someone, maybe it is good to talk to a women who you trust after you have had your time to understand, maybe it will take some weeks to you to understand yourself, I don't really know, in this point and why you'r feeling as you said, .

But after all, maybe I am wrong in what I am thinking and you maybe don't like what I am writing.

With love
Caroline

hello caroline and welcome to our family
i liked a lot what did u write in this subject , very important!!
in addition i want to write my friend experience :
in the first year of his work in toufouleh , he had a subject about al i3tiraf to give it to the chahidine group , so he couldn't be able to give this subject because he never had an "ab rou7i" , for that he has taked a lot of informations about el 2oubouweh el rou7iyeh and el e3tiraf , then 2tana3 fi , and he realised the steps , and givng the subject

Thank u a lot Elias!!

"Eb7athou tagidou, eqra3ou youfta7 lakoum"..

I always use that to find answer to my questions and to solve my problems..

I guess that we as human beeings have a comlicated life. It will be easyer for us to be honest when we understand ourselves. And that not easy. But if we both seek, pray and have patience so I think God will help us a lot solving our problems who are related many times to our personality and our capacity to understand our own problems, ourselves and our life in this world.

We have to beleive that God answer our prayer, and He did, it works in my life. Though I almost never ask him something material, and if I after all do that, so only to find a good jobb with my studies or something like that only to be able to help myself and to do something at least for my parents or other.

Bachir, Just Concerning "2ab rouhi" and "ab mou3arrif "
both are the same thing.
you want maybe to say "2ab rouhi" and "mourchid rouhi"
these are different, but in general, he is the same person too.
For classification of sin, I will post in the "sin" discussion.

rami there are not the same excusem , 2ab rou7i is not the same as 2ab mou3arrif go back to page one you undersand the difference, like a doctor he can be operator or normal doctor, any priest can be mou3arrif, bikouwat alsoultan almou3ta lahou, but not any priest is ab rou7i, any doctor study general medicine but not anyone is an operator, u can have only one 2ab rou7i but u can have many mou3arrifin depending on how urgent u need to confess, you can say things to al2abb alroy7i outside sirr al2i3tiraf but u only confess in the church in front of the master's icon, you can be forgiven in the confession, which is the remedy, but the medecine for the sin not to come back u can only take it from al2abb alrou7i
i guess i am clear enough now

Yes, you are right
but in orthodoxy, specially in Antioch, we prefer that almou3arrif be also 2ab rouhi
for the confession don't be automatic, but a moutaba3a