Political parties

Guys, do you think that an MJO member. can be commiteed to a political party?

Comme on nous le répète, St Elie et St Jean Baptiste ont bien confronté la force politique à l"époque.
Et on comprend dans l'évangile, qu'on est lancé dans le monde pour le purifier.

Mais je pense qu'il faut mettre en tête:
La politique change. Ce qui est vrai aujourd'hui peut etre faux demain. Reste que le droit de sécurité pour les plus démunis est sacret et il faut le défendre jusqu'au bout.
Et concernant les parties politiques au Liban, ne sont pas tout à fait des parties politique en vrai sens du terme, ils sont tous des grouppements confessionnels, ou la démocratie ne se révèle qu'en liberté d'expression. déjà Le président de n'importe qu'elle partie ne change jamais...Imagine Tayyar sans 3oun ou Moustakbal sans Hariri. ..

نعم بل بنظري من المستحسن ان ينتمي إلى فكر سياسيّ. أنا أرفض تمامًا ما جاء في مقالة الأب جورج مسوح حول هذا الموضوع في النور. و يرددّ دائمصا مقولة بولس عن التحزّب نعم التحزّب داخل الكنيسة مرفوض لأننا من حزب واحد هو حزب المسيح الا ان االرب طلب منّا أن نعتي بالأرض و بالتالي ان يكون لنا فكر في تكوين هذا المجتمعز
نعم لا يمكن للمسيحيّ أن يتحزب كنسيًا و لكن من المكن أن يتحزّب سياسيًّا لانه بذلك يعبّر عن رأيه في كيفيّة تتطوّر مجتمعه للوصول إلى المجتمع المثالي الذي في مخيلتنا هو مجتمع ينتمي إفراديًا و جماعيًا للمسيح.
علينا أن نختلف بالسياسية لنطوّر مجتمعنا. هذا واجب مسيحيّ.
اما في لبنان فقبل أن نطلب من شبابنا الإنخراط في العمل السياسي لا بد من توضيح نقطة أساسيّة، أن لا حياة حزبيّة في لبنان بل هناك جماعات اقطاعيّة تنتمي للقائد لا للفكر السياسيّ.
و بالتالي أنا أشجع الانتماء للأحزاب و لا أراه يتعارض مع المسيح و لكن أخاف على الشباب من الانتماء إلى القائد لا إلى فكر سياسيّّ هادف لبناء وطن أ, بناء إنسان.

Politics are part of being commited to a society. And as a citizen you find yourself forced to take part in leading the country.
There is nothing wrong with MJO members having some political opinion but there is wrong being commited to a political part. As Rami said, political parts change. And by being a member, we are following the lead of another unperfect person. While we have a great idol "Jesus Christ" himself. So the steps we must follow are His.

i don't agree with u mmakary...

yes we must take the step of Jesus, he is the idol...
but Jesus was a savor, he didn't want to change regime, it's not his work...

but me as a christan, Jesus told me to find all way possible to create a better society....
so i have (as christan) to thing how i can develop my society, this is politic. so the christan must be a politic... having a political point of vue....
and in order to develop this point of vue, he must join a political movement.
maby after 2 years he find that he was wrong so what is the problem of that?
but again he must not be "tabe3" to a leader, it's not acceptable!

Aboul mich. Here I totally agree with you .

The Big problem that we deal with politics here 3al lebneneh. where being member in a political party unconsciously turns out into the mind of the people to following the party's leader.
We miss a political education in lebanon.
I bet that a big part of lebanese people doesn't know what Left and Right means in politics. Actually I knew about this in a course I took in the university : Political science ( I got an A as a final grade HAH )
I will try to find a scientific political definitions and posts them in this topic.

hello aboul mich;

au debut: mmakary= mireille makary.
ana je diffère chwayi zghiri de mireille.

2)je pense que l'un de notre travaille sur la terre est de faire la bapteme de la société. donc d'entretenir avec la société est bien sûr demandé.

mais aussi au liban la langue politique est la guerre entre les differents pôles .et de plus on voit que la plus part des groupes politiques ne respectent plus les opinions des autres (ya 2atel ya ma2toul). tous ça est contre l'evangile et contre alma7aba.
pour cela ,je pense q'au liban il ne faut plus entrer dans un "political party".
mais si les conditions de respect , de l'amour et de la liberté sont satisfaites ,(et ils ne seront plus), entre les parties politiques, alors pas de problemes.
chou ra2yik mireille??

hi to all,

ma3ak 7a2 bi shu 2ilit elias w thx for introducing me:P
simply i was talking in a specific situation as we r living in lebanon.As fouad said we r missing a political education (gd for ur A). It is our duty to make a change and i am willing to any suggestions to made changes but who is willing?if all we can see is people from all confessions becoming more and more phanatics. There are only few citizens that love their country and willing to fight in order to keep it alive. We r 2 busy fighting over power and money and small things thats why politics in lebanon mich zabta

Je pense que chaque personne membre du MJO doit être un membre actif dans la société. A part le travail avec les enfants, il doit prendre compte des problèmes sociaux ainsi que des sujets politiques et économiques.

J'encourage l'adhésion à des Organisations Non-Gouvernementales à buts non lucratifs qui travaillent sur les droits de l'homme, car ce genre d'activités permettent aux jeunes d'enrichir leur culture, les sensibilise aux problèmes de l'humanité et leur permet d'aider un plus grand nombre de personnes démunies sans pour autant attendre une rémunération ou un poste politique en contrepartie.

First. I don't belive that all the political parties are as you r mentioning Shabeb. I guess that there are many good democratic parties in lebanon in my opinion : " ketleh watanieh" , "yasar dimokrateh", "tajaddod dimokrateh"... and there is a lot of honest and clean people , I mention one I know : Dr. Tarik Metreh.

Second, it has always been like that Mir.
On one hand always a small group of people lead the destiny of theire society. (toward good or bas ends). This is one base of a democratic system. Eventhough all the people elect theire representatives but these representatives control the coutry's path. (With other social instutitutions ofcourse - and they could be related to private or public sctors).
Eventhough in a dectatorship, a group of powerful people (unfortunatly most of the time Tirant) do a coup d'etat and change the regime, maybe to the best maybe to the worst, but what I want to say it's a small group OF LEADERS.
And form the other hand Jesus had gave us the example of "el khamir el kalil youkhammer el 3ajin koullahou". He also told us "Antom mil7ou el ard... Antom Nour el 3alam..."
So from a theoretical and belief points of view it's possible to change even if we are few.
But the problem tha would raise, and I will speak for myself "I am not prepared to participate in the change" (in the politicla context).
To where I want to reach? What is the strategy? what is the plan?...
This would need, as I ve said before, alot of education and open sight.
(By the way if we read the makal of Costy Bendaly "Al talib fi el 7arakah" we see that an MJO member should be highly educated politically ).

One last point I want to mention which is we are not saying here that politics is the only way to affect the society and be a field of our "shahada". there are many diffrent social instittutions that we can be involved in min ajl el shahada lil Rab. But At one point in time polictics and especially political parties had become a Taboo in MJOian's mind. I belive that this taboo should be broken .
Al masi7 kam 7akkan kam.

nice reply fouad.7elouuu!!!

hi Mireille, tcherafna.....

mireille and Elie repeated "in lebanon", does that mean that basicaly u are o.k. that an mjo menber can be a menber in political part?

peut etre je suis d'accord avec toi Jad, mais la question essentielle, si un menbre de MJO want to be a part in a good political parties (insa el wade3 bi lebnan _cause i'm talking theorically) what u will say to him?

For Mireille, i can understand that an MJO menber and he don't love his country!! here i have a big probleme, if we say all MJo menber love their country (yalleh lezem ykoun akid) i think that we must encourage our menber to be activated menbers ipolitical parts in order to change the face of politic in Lebanon!

In general i dont think that it's a problem for mjo member to be a part in political parties since an MJO memeber should be able to spread the good spirit everywhere regarding the type of action he's commited to.But in our country, political parties don't have respect to the supporters or committed people they have.They will simply follow their benefits.So in my opinion i can be a supporter but not a committed person in lebanon but otherwise, if m able to retain all what i have learned from being a christan and an MJO member and i know that i can change to a better situation,then why not?

pout ta question micho: j'ai deja dit que: si les conditions de respect , de l'amour et de la liberté sont satisfaites ,(et ils ne seront plus), entre les parties politiques, alors pas de problemes.

Hi for all...i drove into the discoussion a little bit late... i ll speak in arabic: jaweban 3al mawdou3, akid ehh,la2an nazrit el 7arake el tawjihiyye wel taskifiyye btemtad ma bass 3ala el mawdou3 el dine wel rou7ane, la bal hiyye betsir a way of life ye3ne ejtime3iyyan w saqafiyyan w siyiesiyyan kamen , la2an el siyese hiyye tari2it tenzim lal 7ayet el 3ame bi balad m3ayyan... we bi ma enno el 2a7zeb wel jam3iyyet w ila akhirihe hiye aselib bi 2aleb el le3be el siyesiyye lakan akid lezim wa lezim wa lezim ykoun el chab el 7arake involvedbi alba...hayda berhan chway mathematic 3ala add tefkire bass bi fid bel gharad... nice to meet u all guys and girls

iza bitroidou ma tishmlou nazritkoun ma3 nazrit elharakeh bishakel 3am, if you have an opinion as mjo members it remains your opinion, now im not saying that it is not the mjo opinion but in mjo we do not have something "rasmi" official, but we have for sure principles,

in this forum we discuss our opinion, which is good, now keep the discussion in the flow and dont force your opinion to be the mjo opinion, we are free, born free, and we have the choice, to be a mjo member we still have the choice to choose politics or not it remains something up to each one of us....
hakkan kam

أنا أوافق جملة بشير الأخيرة و هي في الحقيقة صلب الموضوع :" هل يمكن للحركيّ أن ينتمي إلى حركة حزبيّة"؟ أنت تقول أن له الحريّة في الانتماء أو عدمه، و لكن هناك البعض كمقالة الأب جورج مسّوح في النور ترفض هذا الحقّ.
نحن نريد أن نقول أن العمل السياسيّ هو وجه من اوجه الخدمة، و بالتالي على الحركة أن تشجعها. و شكرً.

My opinion was that every member in the MJO has to live a normal political life, he then has to be involved in political parties...no one forced no one to adopt this opinion...

sorry guys i didnt mean to be rude in here, i ment with my words that its true you have the right to be a member or not in s political party, the same thing apply to mjo, we have the right to be or not to be,

myself, i hate politics, i hate watching the news its me, and no one forced me to be like that, i hate when ppl talk in politics, for me its like lies, you know why, coz i think that in politics we follow ppl at the time we should follow the church, to explain more my opinion i'll try to right in arabic my artical will be posted on the mjo group on yahoo by tuesday then we can talk
christ is risen

Nice to meet u BACHIR its ok, no one s offended...

Quote :

Guys, do you think that an MJO member. can be commiteed to a political party?

It's a typical question that can be asked about any lebanese citizen in general, and christian in specific.

Usualy, democracy supports the act of being a partisant or a supporter of a political partie or political line, so that they can express their point of view about important matters in their society, and help applying whatever they see best to the country.

Yet in Lebanon, as we all know, it is never the case, parties founded based on ideological extremism and fundementalist racism, will not help you express your point of view at all, "au contraire" it will force you or hypnotize you to think, feel and see things they way that suits them.

It is mandatory that an MJO member(as for this is what the topic is about), become committed to a partie or a movement, yet it is important that MJO members and Christians in general do not become brainwashed, nor totally influenced and dragged by the leaders of the respective political parties they wish to support.

Another problem that would face our brothers in the MJO, in case they become affiliated to a political line in lebanon, is placing individual goods and sectarian goods above the country's benefits in general.

Ye3ne in other words, it is not a MUST that your leader becomes the President of the republic, nor it is a must that your party represents the majority of the sect which it is based upon.

Also, it is not ethical to have MJO members and christians in general, affiliated to a party that pledge allegiance to a foreign country, and a regime based on terror and racism.

I personally believe we all should express our opinion freely, and the best way to do it is through a political party, because that's democracy.

Yet becoming hypnotized, brainwashed, and suddenly having short term memory, is unacceptable.

We are an emotional society, we can be dragged to war easily (sadly), we can be fooled to change our minds about people quickly also, the best example is to look at most of the blocks in the parliament right now, some of them are a mixed of people, that 3 years ago defined each other as traitors, agents and unpatriotic...

Finally (sorry for the long post), it is logical to say that it's less painful to not be affiliated in a partie like bachir said, but quite frankly, i think it's reasonable to at least support a political line in Lebanon, and have a clue about what's going on, not necessarly become active in a movement, but expressing your opinion is healthy.

Nice to meet you all and God bless you.

Mike Makhlouf,
Nice reading from you.

great answer mike... very nice.

Micho,
I think that the article you mentioned of Fr Massouh
is great. If you want, we can discuss it in another post.

yes i prefer to discuss it, becaue i really refuse what he wrote!