kahanout al mar2a

chabeb sorry 3ala ketret el subjects bass i like to know ur opinions on this subject:
is there any problem in kahanout almar2a?
is there any theological causes that do not keep girls being des pretres(kahana)??

in fact i was thinking in that lately, i think all the reasons give to me before are rediculeous, i don't know why the women can not be a priest.
theorically i don't know, but when i think in it i feel it's very bizare!

Micho, on peut lui trouver des vetements plus cool si c'est ca qui te parait bizarre loool

Ana ma ba3rif 7ada 3endo ra2i mou3arid bi2ouweh ella abouna Mounif Homsi . (Bass aslan ma ba3rif shou ra2yio) hek alouleh yelli 7edro mou7aderto 3an el mawdou3.

fi marra sayedna georoges s2alto el sou2el. fa ma 3ataneh jaweb mo2ni3. 7ekeh shi 3an al takbil fi el haykal aw shi hek ya3neh.

So ana ma bshouf meshekleh bkahanout el mar2a bshakel 3am . bass ya hal toura fia tkoun mjawwzeh.
huh betsir hieh kehin el ra3ieh w zawja bi3aytoulo el khouriyeh lol.
"wa khalaka ellah el insan zakaran wa ounsa" " 3ala souratihi wa misalih"

loooool fou2ad
ana zekir chou 2allak ssayedna .sayedna georges 2al mafi wala sabab theologique ded kahanout el mar2a. fi chaghlet 3amalieh exemple: el chemess wel metran bidallou ybousso ba3ed bel haykal:o so tssawarou ykoun ma3on mar2a:) ...

ana i think mafi sabab mo2ni3 ded kahanout al mar2a gheir el assbeb el 3amalieh yalli 2alon sayedna.

anyway: "la zakar wala onssa kolonna wa7ed fi lmassi7."(hebreu 3:27).
bariki ya ssayida :
almassi7 kam 7akan kam

i agree with u guys, but i think that metropolite George didn't give the right answer:

1- there is no problem with choumousyate al mar2a, the women can be a chemass, so the problem of kissing can not be true.

2- the problem is bigger than theorically because the orthodox church stops all talks with the angligan church becasue the angligan accepted kahanout al mar2a. even that the talks with anglegan was so near to unicty in all therms. the problem is not thechnical, becasue the chuchs accept the thechnics differecncy.

abouna mounif has a book called "na3am aw la likahanout al mar2a" i readed far ago and i didn't find any anwer, also i asked abouna bandalaymoun, i don't remenber his answer, but what i remenber is related of the masculin charcaters of jesus. because jesus was a man the kahen must be man. something like that....

why we refuse kahanout al mar2a, which i'm very sure it's refused theorically and not technically, i don't know???
any answer!!

i am with u michel
bass i think enou el othodox had stopped the discussions with anglegan because of they have homosexuals priest.this is was the big difference.

for the reason that jesus was a man: jesus was a man to be free in his mouvment coz the women 3end el yahoud makenit 7orra like the man.so i don't think this is the reason.

bass i have a question, how we can understand: "la rajol wala mar2a kollona wa7ed filmassi7".hebreu(3:27)???

ma3ak 7a2 michel :c'est vraiment un sujet tres compliqué

There is a BIg Orthodox symbol which is Jabal Athos that refuse the female to enter the jabal. fa yimkin kahanout el mar2a biya3mellon meshekhleh. 3a ases iza ijit kahineh wou badd tzour el jabal . shou bikoun maw2efonn????

c'est un nouveau probleme fouad. il ya beaucoup de problemes.....
chou ra2iykon chabeb bi enou el mar2a mamnou3 tfout 3ala jabal athos???
i hope to see a big numbers of opinions in this subjects:kahanout el mar2a and jabal athos...
lech mafi wala reply men el banet 3ala hal subject????

well my friend , you asked for it!
lech ta ma yikhallou l banet yifoutou 3a jabl athos? I find that really unfair w mich bass hek , old fashionned kamen!!
chou fi fare2 bein l rajol wil mar2a? iza chi hiyi a77san minno bi 100 marra!!!
lech ta ye7rmouwa min ziyaret jabal athos!
this should change li2anno it reflects how much l orthodox can be narrow minded ( I am going 2 hear a lot of yelling min ba3ed ha chi!!)
w sorry la yalli za3ajo 7akyi!

lol juliette, jit 2id3amik:)

first i dont think ino fi problem bi kahanout el mar2a cuz theoratically mafi shi byimna3 bas there are some ta7afouzt..ino iza l hayka we r not allowed to enter in w by the way mabifham lech..la2ano if we think shwey ino jesus maken 2ija 3al 2ared law ma min l 3adra "woman" so i think that should change..all that matters ino ykoun l priest whether mar2a aw rajol mousta77ik an youkaddim l karabin..

est_ce que la société orthodoxe btet2abal kahanout el mar2a??
ma ma32oul ya3mol enchi2a2 kbiiiiiiiirr bel knissé ?
je pense qu'il faut encore discuter les consequences!!!

10x mireille!
I agree with u ! i always wonder why girls and women cant enter to the haykal , but I do enter any way li2ano I think ino chou hal elet l 3a2el!
I dont know why a woman being a priest should pose such problems in our church , coz like mireille said , all that matters is that the priest be worthy of serving God , regardless of his sex

Hey Everyone, shou haideh "a77san bi mit marra" (just kidding).

Anyway. Guys n Girls don't forget that we live in Masculin dominating society. If we look back a bit to 1950's girls were not even allowed to go to school. Girls were considered less mentally and physically capable than men. I don't an to enter this debate. But a fact is that until the early past this was the look to the girl.
Just fo clarification, as we all know the Orthodox faith went into a "dark age" ya3neh zaman in7itat kbir due to the non-educated society people lived in . education was only available to the rich... so some takalid moutakhallifa start entering the orthodox faith like al mounawal marra wa7ida fi el sana, and girls are not allowed to enter the haykal....
and the reasons for this are stupid y3aneh( elias safatly can tell about why some people are gainst al mounawalah ) . As for the girl entering the haykal the rule was that she's not allowed during her period, cause she was considered moudannaseh ( hal shi bizakkerna bel farrisiyyin), and since manna 3amalieh enno kel ma badda tfout bent 3al haykal yes2alouwa iza hieh bel period walla la2, fa aloulak baleha men asla. ya3neh in my opinion mosh bass habal takhallof fazi3.
Anyway, with "al nahda el orthodia yalla akamaha allah fi 7arakatihi tijah el nas"(G.Khodor) people start to realize that what they are doing is not just wrong it's hurting the Orthodox faith, and things starts to improve, so people biyetnewalo kel a7ad, girls biyekhedmo bel haikal kell el asabi3 metlon metel el shabeb. Bass sorry girls as for Jabal Athos and Kahanout el mar2a Lastou a3lam , Allahou ya3lam. I will try to research for the arguments but I think that there is no reason .

for ur questions fouad(( elias safatly can tell about why some people are gainst al mounawalah )
parce que simplement henni massi7iyeh 3al hawiyeh bass.
w as our teacher dr.Costy Bandaly said: "al hartaka hiya nakess filma7aba."

awwal chi khallini reply 3a elias ,minnin hinni?? massi7iyi 3al hawiyi? yimkin ive missed some readings bass to whom are you referring? w chou hiyyi l hartaka yalli 3am ta7ki 3anna?

now ill reply to fouad
haydi its a fact :P

yes lal assaf that we live in a masculin society but the things u talked about ne7na tkhattaynehoun min zamen ktir and i dont think ba3ed fi chi binit bi lebnen mich mit3allmi mitla mitil l chabeb , ba3dein beware! hayda 3asser l nisse2 ( hilary clinton w sigourney royale w the israeili one ) , w mich mtawwal la youssal 3a lebnen , so girls being able to enter the haykal will become the least of ur concerns when we will rule over the world :P

lets get serious now , if like u said the orthodox faith went into a dark age , well its about time it came to light now and realize that we should update a lot of our data, not in a way that detroys our beleives , but in a way that makes them become more logical!!

eh ya3ni law ken fi 3endon wa2ta chi "period detector " biyechteghel 3a chi sensor ye7ettou 3ala beb l haykal walla ma keno alo la2! this is so absurde!! and this has to change real soon , coz i know that back in my village , they still beleive in it!!! w hayda lchi biy3assibni!!

osset jabal athos is so unfair toward girls and i think that it has no logical basis , i dont know what are the religious ideas that led to that , but i would like to see them change soon , its bad enough that we cant go visit jesus' tomb in palestine ( since we are lebanese wil dawli tab3ana will ban us from entering lebanon if we already went to israel !) kamen we cant go to athos!

Hey,
Elie asdo bi "Hinni", people who denies that people should take the communion at each koddas.( and this is a kind of hartaka )

But ana ken asdeh a Elie t2oul 3an argument marra eltelleh enno fi 7ada hek bifakkir which is : "7aram netnewal la2anno ba3den hal koudousat wa2ta tfout 3a jesemna 7 tfouf el cycle digestif w tenteheh bel toilette".... Anyway anothor absurd argument.

As for Tkhottayna hal Mar7aleh ( a Men's world). I don't think so Marie-J. There is a lot of proofs that we didn't and mostly in the oriental world. Men has more privileges in Salaries, laws...
And even if this appearances terminate, I believe it would take a looooooot of time for the idea of equality between men and women to change in the head of the society as an entity.
Because I believe that thousands of years of discrimination's effects wont disappear in 100 year.
Anyway, I wished you could be in 3id el 7arakeh last Tuseday Marie-J. and heard B. G. Khodor what he have said. "We as 7arakiyin we have to face al fikir al 3atik fi al kanisa, wa lihaza yajib an yashi777 nazarouna fi el kira2a wal ba7es 3an el 7akika fi el kotob..."
so one of the problems those days, that most people don't read. so if a charismatic person comes up with a appealing idea most of the people would like his idea without looking to the scientific basis or roots of this idea. This might be good if the idea happens to be good , but this might also lead to tashwih lil 7aka2ik.
what I want to say is that like al 7arakiyin al awa2el fattashou el kotob wa shafou enno poeple are doing wrong by not yetnewalo every koddas w anna3o el 3alam bel mounawaleh el da2imeh, someone has to navigate in a deep research to make it acceptable for the majority of the people that a woman can be a priest.
Ta ma etkhabba wara esba3eh, w edda7ak 3a 7aleh w 3laykon , although I am for the kahanout of mar2a, but it still sounds weird for me.

"Inna tilmizat el rabb ta3allamna mina el malak al karza bil kiamati el bahij wa tara7na el kada2a al jadiya wa khatabna el rousoula mouftakhiratin wa ka2ilat soubia el mawt wa kama el masi7ou el ilah, mani7an el 3alam el ra7mata el 3ozma" . So awwal man bashar bi anna el masi7 kad kam min bayn el amwat henneh el nisa2.

Al masi7 kam, 7akkan kam .

One more thing,
if we look to mas2oulin el toufouleh in those days we can feel what are you talking about Marie-J. most of the mas2oulin toufouleh are women.
And if we look to teshkilet mjlis fer3e tripoli masalan. we see that minimum shi 50% or more are women.
Nhar 3id el foso7 3a awwal el eddes, during the tolbeh el salamieh el kobra, medreh shou khatarleh and I noticed that woman are remarkably more then men in the church so I did a fast count and it happened that the number of woman at the beginning of the koddas was double the number of man.

" Ayouhal Rijal , intabihou wa illa ra7it 3laykom" (Fouad D.)

7elouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu fouad.
we are lucky to read ur repies .essteznaaa.

Hey Marie-J , dakhlik did you put the same reply twice with some variations? .

i dont wanna enter the debate but i read a book called, na3am am le likahanout almar2a.... for father mounif houmsi, rami you can find his opinion in this book, i dont wanna say more "fatishou alkoutoub"

I will try to read it as soon as I can. But I already know that Abouna Mounif is against kahanout al mar2a.

so what, he's a father, a writer, and logical in his answers, i dont like his opinions in most of the topics he discusses but i dont mind listening and reading too. for me we cant discuss things in this forum just for the sake of duscussion and let our feelings work especially that we are all young mjo-ian and none of us is "lehouti" without a guidness we need some books,

hakkan kam

Ma ba3rif bash, enno enta 7esis enno 7ada 2al gheir elli 3am t2oulo. in each topic 3am n2oul w 3am ned3eh to read reference books and get a reference opinions.

I won't enter in the purpose of discussions here.

And for me, I agree with a lot of what abouna Mounif say. I love his wa3zat bi deir kaftoun. He is a great teacher.

But as you r saying we still have alooooooooot to read and to search.

it was ghalta matba3iyi coz i was writing my reply yesterday and my connection was bas so it cut off , so i thought it didnt appear , thats why i re-wrote it again today

fouad : i didnt know what u meant to say when u brought up the subject of the charismatic person who convinces people with little
knowledge , bi chou 3am ye2ane3oun in this case? walla hayda 3am ta7ki en général?! ino people should read more so they wont fall in such traps?

as for bashir , id like to tell you that no one of us is perfect so we do all these discussions so we can benefit from the knowledge and information of each other,of course we need lots of readings but there is no harm to discuss things just for the sake of discussion , and we cant say anything without our feelings being involved coz we are humans not programmed machines

personnaly i left MJO many years ago , but i am finding a lot of interesting things in this forum and i am also learning a lot from it, so thank you guys for sharing!!