kahanout al mar2a

hi all,
and specailly girls.

1- and old harakeh and saint father told me, the secret of the success of the mjo, or it's strategy, which is very simple.

the problem: no good priest,
the solution: the harakyin go and make themself good priest.
exemple : George khoder

the problem: no rahbana wa rouhaban
the solution: the harakyin go and make themself good rouhaban
exemple: alab elias mourkos (al raheb al wal fi antaquia)

thr problem: no writers and diffender of the faith.
the solution: the harakyin go and make themself good writers
exemple: costi bandaleh

the problem: women are negligated
the solution: harakyin girls, must go and make them self chammassate wa younhou hourman almar2a.
exemple : mireill , marie julliette
in fact 3alamta al haraka annana linoughayer nabda2 bianfousinna. this is how women will return to play it's complete role in the antaquia church, we must take the lead, i'm not a girl to do so, buit we need girls to do soo, anyone will? this his how mjo change the church?

2- for athos, i agree with them or with theri right not to accept women, in fact the saint of the athos is a women (walidat al ilah) but the problem is not racionalism it's just a way of life, and we must accepted it.... like that in womens adiara, guys are not well welcomed???

the argments given by people who are against the ordinatin of women (like Jesus didn't ordinate womens, the priest is 2imtited for Jesus and Jesus was man....)all n'ont aucune valeur....
Simple:! there is no ordination in the 2injil.
la plus grande féministe est la grande théologienne Elisabeth Behr, who write a book with kalistos Ware about ordination of women.
don't know if it is translated to arabic.
Read Elisabeth at:
http://www.pagesorthodoxes.net/saints/behr-sigel/behr-sigel-intro-hommage.htm
donc les questions plus bêtes "droits d'entrer l'autel" est ridicule;ce n'est que la continuation de la loi juive que Fouad a cité.
Mais je pense que la plupart des pretres ne croient pas à ca maintenant...que les vieux villageois...enfin j'espère

Pour Athos, imagine that a beautiful women will go there, shou bisir bil mi2ett rrihban hounik ;p
C'est vrai, c'est pas parce que ce sont des filles, mais c'est parce que les moines ont quitté toute tentation y inclus la tentation sexuelle.
y a d'autre raison aussi que les femmes n'ont pas le droit d'y aller, enfin même les femmelles (ountha elhayawanett)
sous peine de prison de 1 an.
Mais, je vous raconte aussi que 2 fois dans l'histoire, et à cause des révolution, les monastères ont acceuilli tous les réfugiés y compris les femmes...

Bèriki ya sayyeda...

Marie-J, indeed, I was talking in general to say people should read more inorder not to fall in such traps.
It's like shouhoud yahwa do. they have a very strong argumentative style that would convince many people in hartakat...

Anyway. I was talking to rami couple of days ago. I told him that some of your articles sometimes btestafezzneh Marie-J. But nice to meet u first. and it's a pleasure to debate with . you look to the problems from a very realistic view that sometimes we forget about. Anyway 3am estafid ktiir men hal discussions 3al alileh 3am bikhallouneh 7ekk raseh shouway. wou fakkir wen baddeh e2ra ta zabbit ma3loumeteh. keep on the Good discussions.

To everyone. pleas let us find the arguments with and against kahanout el mar2a and comment on them rather than debating on abstract thoughts. Rami we can start with you, I guess, or with anyone that have read something about this issue. I ve already given one argument about kissing in the haykal (given to me as an answer to q I ve aske to B. Khodor)... does anyone have a new argument... yalla safatleh shaghellna el hemmeh shouway. walla entah betzett el fettaysheh w btehrob

Fouad, you posted 2 sentence for Sayyedna Georges
Can you post them in the "power point" topic?

Abou el roum el joumal bi tasarroufak. fik tes7abon w t7etton

mniha Fouad!!!

i never provoqued you ya fouad as far as I know!
nice 2 meet u 2! w kamen its nice 2 debate with u all!

I am just saying my opinion and how i think , bas ktir 3am insseddem bi achya ma kinit 2a3refa , asslan ana min l assess i know very little and i said it from the start! so anything anybody says is new 2 me!

for michel's reply : very nice reply but i dont think im gonna go and be a priest or anything that is related to it since i dont have the vocation or enough faith
i know so little , but i was just discussing this point , as i discuss all other ideas in this forum , from my only point of vue that is not related to haraki aw orthodox in any ways!

im just here to learn more and thats what im getting , and i dont think that i am adding anything new to all ur information

La discussion n'est pas que des informations à gagner.
une parole sortant d'un coeur franc apporte bcp...
Un avis différent que le mien me pousse à chercher et réféchir davantage.

en effet ta presence dans le site a rendu le site plus existant, j'aime toujours lire tes paroles. ce n'est pas vraie que tu n'a pas ajouter pour moi (et je parle seulement de moi), mais je crois c'est le cas des autres.
et comme tu voit marie malgres que nous sommes en mjo mais nos idees sont quelquefois tres differents. pour moi une personnes interste en jesus et cherchant d'etre plus savant et servant et totalement harakeh. ne croit pas que d'etre harakeh tu doit venire entendre nos "meeting". et ne croit pas encore que notre fois et plus grnad que votre c'est totalement faux de prendre les choses comme ca.

for my suggestion, i'm not asking from the girls to be priest cause it's not accepted, i'm asking them of being chamassate. in fact i know that ur answer will be like this. i'm waiting the answer of Mireille, but to change, (wahazi khibrate al haraka) we must go and make this change by ourself, we have to find those girls that can be chamassate, and to fight with tem in order to make the change!!

merci!
moi jai déjà dis que jai quitté MJO min zamen!
je sais que mes idées sont totalement différentes de toutes vos idées tous!
but since every one is telling me to keep writing,thats what I will do!
michel u still think that a woman being a priest can not be done,is that ur personal opinion walla its based on religious thoughts?
merci!

merci!
moi jai déjà dis que jai quitté MJO min zamen!
je sais que mes idées sont totalement différentes de toutes vos idées tous!
but since every one is telling me to keep writing,thats what I will do!
michel u still think that a woman being a priest can not be done,is that ur personal opinion walla its based on religious thoughts?
merci!

what i know clerly that my chruch refuse the women to be priest,
for me (as i mentionned in all this discuusion) i don't know why, if i wnat to think deeply or to be based on my knwoledge i don't find any good reason whty women couldn't be priest...
by i have to know the good reason for the church of refusing this....
anyway i just want u to know that ur ideas are not totaly differant from our! i don't know why ur thinking like that!!
no one is like the other!!

marie, alharakah hiya nahij na3ishouh, its a way of life, it is not "ijtime3" we attend, anyway we r not here to discuss the "2iltizem alharakeh" we'll leave it fo ranother topic, regarding reading, your right there is no harm in expressing our feelings in here and discussinig toppics, and sensitive topics, i just wanna make sure our words dont harm others, because simply it is our words our opinions. we dont have anyone with experience among us i guess, we are all young, havent been to theyology studies, or monastires, we need to read its true, but for me if i feel like my opinion will hurt the other listning or readin person i wont say it simply cos it will affect the other...

peace be with u all,

Michel, Bashir, Marie-Juliette,
Bachir, I don't agree with you that anyone of us has not experience.
ma darouré ykoun ma3é doctorat théologie for saying an orthodox opinion.
All of us are responsible, person who read, who think logically...Me, (or Michel or Elias, or Fouad or ...), i can be representive (moumassel) of mjo or orthodoxy!

Michel:
How do you know that our church don't agree with the ordination of women?! this topic is open and not yet close.

Marie juliette:
How do you say that all of us have totalement des opions différents que les tiens? it's not very exact what you say
Lmassih Kam.
Rami

hi rami!
well I dont see anyone of you with the abortion under certain conditions, the death penalty, the support of biologically gay persons and the ability of girls to access mount Athos!
so all in all , my opinions sont très déviées par rapport aux votres!

bashir : i will be pretty sure from now on that my opinions wont harm the feelings of anyone in this forum!

Fouad est avec "ability of girls to access mount Athos"
Moi je suis avec l'ordination des femmes.
et avec ' the support of biologically gay persons'....
Ca te suffit :p??

hehe ok good enough for me

hello
je pense qu'il n' ya que les causes que sayedna jorge a mentionné (les causes pratiques) qui est une obstacle pourque la femme soit pretre .mais j'ai peur aussi des consequences si les pretres femmes existeront apres 2000 ans de jesus et des apotres .par exemple inchi2a2 bel kanissé.
il faut tenir compte des consequences n'est ce pas???

Pour Sayyedna Georges, il n'y a que les difficultés prqtiques,
mais pour bcp d'autre, il y a d'autres obstacles.

Je pense que tout ce qui est nouveau à notre église, doit être mure, bien réfléchie et bien discuté et accepté par tout le monde avant d'être admis.

marie juliette,

ana ma assadtik bi hakyeti, u can say whatever u want we r all here brothers and sisters and we learnt to listen lolllllllll

take care guys,
sorry rami i aslo didnt mean that we cant be reps for mjo coz i know that we have the qualifications to be i ment that nihna ma lezim nithawwar bi our opinion but still everyone has the right to say whatever he wants

god bless u all

by the way bashir , i am still waiting for your reply in the abortion section!

it's strange that no one give us till now a good reason to refuse "Kahanout al mar2a".
even the part of sayedna george, which is for me not pratical nor accepted, for me it's a "tabrir ghair noukni3 abadan".
till now not even a small reson to discuss!!!

check this out
http://www.womenpriests.org/index.asp

guys, its pretty wiered, now you make me think, why jesus first sohwed himself to th women after resurraction, "koulou litalemizi anni asbikoukoum ila eljalil" ...."li2annahounna kounna khe2ifet" ...."lakad kam yesou3" the women where the first apostales "7amalou alboushra 2ila altalemiz'" now the question why women cant be priest if they were already apostales???????

st takla we call her "mou3adilat alrousoul" can someone give us an answer please. i did not want to reply because i think that the church decision must have an explanation, but i think time changed but the bible did not. if jesus "zahara awalan lilniswa" then women value in the church is important,

i dont have an answer but i share with you your questionaries
hakkan kam

THANK U bashir for ur reply.
but in fact it seems (after all this discussion), that no one in this forum have a reason!! but as u said the church refuse strongly kahanout al mar2a?
so i think we must do a research evryone in his area, to ask around and see the opinion of this peolpe. for we i will try to ask Jihad haydar, (mas2oul firi2ti), abouna sarouj (kahen al ra3i2eh),!
hope evryone to try ask someone he know to understand and discuss the church point of vue!