marriage

le second sujet est: al zawaj al moukhtalat ma3 des musulmans ou des catholiques ou des chretiens non orthodoxes?
quel est notre vu pour le marriage avec :1)les musulmans
2)les cretiens qui ne sont pas orthodoxes????

Toi c'est quoi ton point de vue? )

I see a lot of practical problems in al zawaj al mokhtalat. But when the couples love each others deeply and sinserly, they can overcome the major problems.

People (ideally) marry whom they love. so if your beloved one is from anothor religion. Allah yiberik.

But when a person is so commited in the church and living his life as a true member int the body of Christ. I guess that he or she would find his or her life partner from inside that communoty.

W fal takon al afra7 3amira fi diar el jami3. Amine

mon point de vue est que: la famille inauguré par le marriage est une eglise;le mari est la marie vont essayer ensemble(jassad wa7id) pour entrer le royaume de dieu en suivant les paroles du messie et du l'eglise; s'ils l'un d'eux n'etait pas chretiens et meme orthodoxe ,comment ils peuvent travailler ensemble pour arriver à dieu et chacun suit un chemin different de l'autre?est-ce que cela est possible?? qu'en pensez vous??

comme je suis d'accord 100% avec les paroles de Rami, je parlera sur le concept de choisire:
1- adam between the food and the word of God he choosed the Food, it's a major problem....
2- because what rami say can not be done nowaday in el zawaj el moukhtalat, so here the person is again going back to Adam, between his love to jesus and his love to the other person he have to choose what this person must do, being as adam choosing food or as jesus (biltajourba) choozing God.
3- if he choosed to marry the person from the other religion he simply refused jesus. he's out of christanity.... but when marying from other christan church it's not the same...
4- a lot of exception for example what if maked a deal with the other that the family must be christan (by teaching and living)?
5- in evry moment in our day we are in Adam condition to choose, generally we choose food (we became out of christ "even for lying"), but by al tawba we return by deciding to choose God again and not to repeat the wrong. in the marrage when there is tawba how it will be effective by divorce?? and if there is kids, isn't more christan to stay in this unchristan family?? (hope the last idea was clear,)

I don't see it like this aboul mish.

I am will descuss the principe. ( cause as I ve already said I think it's very hard for a committed christian to find his or her shrik 7ayeton out of the church)... BUt
I don't think that choosing to live with a person from another religion is a denial for Jesus.
And I didn't like the tashbih between choosing a person and choosing food instead of God. it's if like you love someone (from another religion) is a sin or somthing like that.
A person is a God's image. I believe that Jesus yatakhatta El dine.

simply I refuse el mountala2at yalli ntala2et menna akhi michel. ma3 el ta2kid 3ala sou3oubet el mawdou3...

(by the way kif bet2ayyid Rami wou rami manno ketib post 3an el mawdou3 )

And Safo: "Ya ali3 3a 7amatoura wel meshwari tawil........."

HI SORRY FOUAD AND ALL,
I AGREE WHAT ELIAS WROTE NOT RAMI...

in evry moment of our life we our choosing between God and none God!
Food is Good but choosing food instead of God is wrong
muslims are Good but choosing muslims (as marrage ) instead of God is wrong
sex is Good but choosing sex instead of God is wrong....

because jesus said:
" Man ahab aba aw ouma aw imra2atan akthar mini fahoua la yasta7ikounni"
" itrouk koul chay w itba3nii"

evrything, i really mean evrything is Good when it's for God...
evrything, i really mean evrything is wrong when it's not For God...

when u pray cause u love God it's christan...
when u pray cause u love ur self it's not christan

Finally jesus say : u are with me or against me...
what do u think Fouad?

Ce que fou2ad a dit est bien sur, acceptable dans notre relation avec les non chretiens, ce qui est bien vu dans les evangiles et les epitres de l'apotre saint paul, mais je pense qu'il n'est plus permi lorsequ'on parle du marriage ecclesiale(kanassi) puisque c'est un mystere(sser men al2assrrar al moukadassa) ;en gros ,qui n'a pas subit la bapteme et sser al mayroun al moukadass et ne travaille pas pour se preparer au royaume de dieu n'a pas de permition d'etre marrier dans l'eglise.
De plus, il ya une unicite entre l'homme et la femme apres le marriage (ils sont jassadan wa7idan)comment ils peuvent travailler ensemble pour l'unicité avec jesus et d'enseigner leurs enfants l'evangile si l'un d'eux ne connait plus l'eglise ?????
solution: impossible (à mon avie)

It's an important point Mich. But this issue of choosing can be true even if you love is an Orthodox.
I am being shouway heik, bel ghyoum...

At the end I agree that the core of a marriage (solb el zawaj) is a trinity , the man the woman and God. if the human partner would break the chain. mar7aba zawej.



wal tabka el afra7 3amira fi diarikom.

hi!
i just liked to give my opinion ma3 ino mich based 3al oumour l diniyi ktir ,well coz ma ktir ba3ref ichya bi hal domaine!
akid l mixed marriage is hard , specially if the second one is muslim, i think this kind of marriages needs a looot of work to be maintained so im against it.
bass i am with marring other christians even if they were not orthodox , li2ano bil nihéyi killna minssalli la allah w la jesus , iza fara2et chway mich machkali khssoussi iza l tnein biy7ebbo ba3ed!
for what elias said ino how 2 will teach their children the evangile if one of them didnt know the chutch, that can easily apply to an orthodox person who doenst know much about his ta2ifih! so l machkal bitsiir , likek once elias told me , the marriage between orthodox praticant et orthodox non praticant!

ok marie juliette; on peut maintenant discuter ce que vous avez dit; le marriage avec des chretiens non othodoxes:
qu'en pensez vous??

hi
j'ai aime donner mon avis sur le marriage lmoukhtalat je suis avec l'opignon de marie juliette elle a raison que chacun qui se marie d'une personne musulman va avoir beaucoup de problemes malgres que l'amour existe.li anno kil wa7ad dino chi and sa3eb ktir ltawafo2 bayneton and ba3den wledon byitla3o m2asamin ma bi 3oud fi tiwjih mazbout la din.
par contre je ne suis pas contre le mariage d'1 chretien autre orthodox bil nhiye kilna masihie w ma btifro2 ktir.le minimum on a le meme local de prier c'est l'eglise.

hello again
tu sais Elias que moi je suis avec le marriage avec des chrétiens non orthodoxes , car ils sont des chrétiens aprés tout , et on a tous un seul dieu et un seul jésus
je pense que tu vas avoir une opinion totalement différente!

hi all,
bikhousous al zawaj al moukhtalat bi7asab ma3loumati 3an el mawdou3 men ba3ed kira2at 2deret estantej eno aham chi bil 7ayat al zawjiyi al orthodoxiyi houwa al wa7da wal iman fa iza kana al zawjayn kadiran 3al taw7id imanohoma wal al 3aych 3ala asas al wa7da al masi7iya al orthodoxiya w zalika yantawi 3ala ma3rifat al tarafayn lmafhoum hazihi al wa7da al imaniya al orthodoxiya,d'une autre vue al 3amal 3ala alitijah bikadar al moustata3 ila tarik al wa7da wal kamal w mata kan al tarafayn ya3ichan fi wa7da w yas3ayan ila al kamal fi al iman al masi7i al orthodoxi yakounan istata3a an youkarriban 3archahouma ila malakout al rab wa bel tali 3aych haza al malakout bi7oudour al rab da2iman.

Je pense que dans l'église les membres sont des individus et non pas des couples (meme si Jasadan wahidan), ni des familles. 1 partenaire pourra avoir le salut sans l'autre. Maitenant il y a 2 sortes de gens.
1- Ceux qui ne croit pas ils se marient avec des personnes hors de l'église (pareil si ortho, catho, ou muslim...)
pareil si dans l'eglise ou pas, pareil si il change de confessions (chretien musulman ou inverse) car depuis le début il ne croit pas.mais la il y a une confrontation sociale si le mariage est chretien musulman car notre societe n'est pas indulgente face à ca.
2- soit il considère que la foi est qqchose capitale dans sa vie.et ca a des niveaux, certains considèrent que l'orthodoxie n'est pas comme tous les autres chrétiens et ils savent ou ne savent pas pourquoi, soit ils considèrent que tous les chrétiens sont pareils, et ils savent pourquoi, ou pas. Pour certains il est possible de partager la vie avec une personne de confession différente, et chacun croit comme il veut (et je pense que ca est possible) et ils se mettent d'accord pour l'éducation religieuses des enfants, soit pour d'autres, il ne trouvent pas leur amour, qu'avec une personne qui partage avec eux la meme foi.

et toi rami quel est ton point de vue??quant à le marriage avec des chretiens non orthodoxes??

Rami, for me it so clear...
i mustr love jesus more that anything else, even more than the person who i love...
when i must choose between this person and jesus i must choose jesus...
if i loved a muslim girl, and i know by marying here i can not teach jesus for my children. i have to choose between jesus and her, ther is no "hal wasat"
peter left his family and joined jesus, when a person asked jesus for burying his father he told him, "itba3ni wa da3 el mawta yadfounoun mawtahoum"
jesus is the important think, "al- Raheb" he scrifice not only by one who love but also by having children, because he want to say that nothing is more important than jesus , nothing.... and again nothing.
what does mean a sin, a sin is when i choose something and make it more important than jesus.
is money is more important than jesus?
is sex more important than jesus?
is eating more important than jesus?
is my life more importnat than jesus?
is my dignity more importnat than jeus?
is this muslim girl or man more important than jesus?
and after all, (Fouad),
it's the problamatic of Adam
is the fruit (knowing wrong and write, being like God) is more important than jesus? Adam said yes
what u say u? it's always choosing, in evry moment of our life

hi everyone
i found out that if a non orthodox wants to marry an orthodx guy she should be rebabtized or to be more precise tetmayran by an orthodox priest.
i was wondering first about the reason and second is it fair?

hi....
Rindala...
happy reading from u?!!!
aslan chou bada bihal chaghleh
i think when the person want to transform to orthodoxi he must tetmayraneh (not baptisiyed if she's initialy christan)... but if the girl want to marry i don't know if it's necessary from where u had this information???

Hello

Ceci n'est pas appliqué partout dans le monde, et se modifie d'une région à l'autre et d'une région à l'autre.

On ne rebaptise pas car la fille est déjà baptisée au nom du Père et du Fils et du Saint Esprit.

On fait le sacrement de chrismation pour dire qu'elle a rejoint la communion.
(3awdet elchariké).

Pour quoi tu demandes si cela est juste? qu'est ce que tu en penses?

michel , i heard it , i did not read t in an official sourcel
i asked because the person already had mayroun by her own church since we all believe in the same Christ i thought why repeat the same ritual twice.

Hi I am new to this site…. I am catholic and I meet this site by accident. I hope you orthodoxians don’t have a problem. I am illiterate about religion and you all seem to be very religious. I opened the site and started mingling around it. I found this subject and it took my attention because it resembles my situation. I had some points that I need to post reply on some people and sorry for not remembering names. Hope it is not a problem.
1- I think that we as Christians in general and muslims also pray to the one God so it is not a matter. I don’t think that if I tought my children el din el islami aw el din el masihi will make him mad about. It maybe that a person married from other religion but is still faithful to god would be appreciated more than a person that married from the same religion due to his works.
2- i don’t think god appreciates someone on one subject at once instead he appreciates all his work in all over his life.
3- I hope that in Lebanon this subject and conversations about it would be stopped. Nothing makes it impossible to marry from another religion is our way of thinking. Christians think “that God made them the chosen people” and muslims think the other way round. Let us stop thinking about this stuff and turn over more towards what the person needs and not what we think that God wants. That is why we can see mixed history and mixed relations all over the world. Why is it acceptable that a shi3i marries a jewish is America and this won’t happen in Lebanon. Why is it that a catholic might marry a shi3a and this won’t cause a problem. Why are we Lebanese still thinking that what we are doing is correct especially in stopping two lovers from continuing there life together.
Wwho are we to say what god wants and what he doesn’t want. To my little knowledge God love lovers and love marriage or else he won’t have found this catastrophe.
Finally just one final comment concerning what rindala was saying. I don’t think the catholic mayroun is different from the orthodoxian neither from the maronite. The mayroun is a mayroun and nothing will change it bas the problem in the Lebanese mentality.
Finally sorry for talking a lot but am in love with a she3ite and I will never marry other than her except if God made me an accident and died. We love each other and we will marry and I hope that when I am sure I will invite you all and whoever wants to come he is most welcomed.
N.B: hope nobody got angry from me. But I saw the subject w I liked the conversation and I registered just to comment and maybe I won’t comment again

Hello Rony,
Bien sur ya hala, ca fait plaisir de te lire, et nous partager ton point de vue.
Merci d'être présenté (d'ailleurs il y a la rubrique 'introduce yourself', qu'il faut utiliser: Elie, Mireille....)

Comme j'ai écris dans un autre poste (j'avais pas encore lu celui ci)qu'on ne peut pas être Chrétien et musulman en même temps.
MAIS, on peut ne pas croire à la différence, et dire que Dieu (qui effectivement le même) est pareil pour moi si il est trinité et que Jésus s'est incarné, ou que Jésus est prophète et la trinité n'est pas vrai....Chacun peut croire comme il veut. mais ce n'est ni chrétien ni musulman, c'est autre chose.

Nous, les orthodoxes, on est pour le mariage civil, parce que effectivement chacun doit avoir le droit de croire comme il veut.

Un chrétien comme toi Rony doit avoir le droit de se marier de la bien aimée Chiite, sans forcer ton amoureuse à changer et faire chrétienne. (car vous voyez que c'est la même chose)

Rony, on est 'religieux' c'est vrai, et on croit à la liberté, à l'amour inconditionnel et infini pour tout le monde, on est contre le confessionalisme (ta2ifyé) libanais.

Au Liban, il faut avoir la liberté religieuse et sociologique de choisir son partenaire comme on veut.

Moi, je pense que ëtre Chrétien et musulman en même temps ce n'est pas possible, mais je dis que tu es libre, (et effectvement il y a une différence que toi tu n'y crois pas)de te marier de n'importe qui (et il n'a pas de honte) car simplement tu ne crois pas comme moi.

Merci encore pour ton poste et keep writing.
w Alla (car tu crois en Dieu )ywaf2ak w yberkak toi et ton amoureuse. (soit patient pour le confessionalisme libanais et ne te révolte pas:))

ya ahla bi rony , it is nice to read from u

i want to add a point in what rami said :
rony u have writed:"Wwho are we to say what god wants and what he doesn’t want"
i am against ,
coz all we have the purpose to do "machi2at allah" , and that which we said in our prayers" litakon machi2atak la machi2ati".

Hello Elie,
je pense que Rony voulait dire par cette phrase que nous, on peut se tromper de la volonté de Dieu, et du coup projeter la notre sur le Sien. c'est ca Rony?

Sinon, en tant que Chrétien je sais que le chemin et la vie c'est le Christ. je ne serais avec lui qu'en suivant ce chemin. le seul qui mène.

Mais tout le monde peut prendre le chemin qu'il veut, et Dieu peut habiter le coeur de n'importe qui si il lui ouvre la porte.